Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: And there we go. And we're live. Hi, Rebecca, thanks for joining me today.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Hello, it's nice to see you.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: Rebecca is in the Hague.
Rebecca and I are both a part of Storyhouse Works and both a part of this conference that's happening next week in what, like nine days on March 20th in Amsterdam at the library, which is right near the Central Station.
And I, I wanted to talk to Rebecca to hear a bit about what she's doing. She's on a panel of editors. She's an editor. And in fact, I'm going to let you introduce yourself in a second.
She's on a panel of editors. I'm doing something different and I wanted to hear a little bit of a teaser, a little bit of what's happening, what she's doing, and then what's going to happen at the conference, editing wise. So could you do just a quick intro of who you are and maybe a little bit about what, what, what you're doing at the conference. A panel of different editors and you could explain that a little bit.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Thank you. So I'm a freelance editor and book doctor and I work for Story Houseworks, but they're not my only clients.
But with them I work with two other editors. There's some other people on our team. We also have ghostwriters and people available to do manuscript assessments, which is a mystery term I may unveil later.
And we will have about an hour, maybe 45 minutes to just discuss with the audience who choose to come and see us what editing is, why you might want it, and how we can link the services we provide with the writer's purpose.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. As we were just talking before we hit record, my role for the conference is I am going to be meeting with Janet Margot, who has worked for 10 years at Amazon and in the book department of Amazon and specifically in the whole kdp, and how helping authors publish their books and everything. And so she knows a lot about sort of the other side of the screen of publishing books and what helps books sell and what is what marketing works and advertising. And specifically she focuses on Amazon advertising. But she has a big sort of, how shall I say, gauntlet. Gauntlets. Bit violent. She has a.
She would prefer that your books are solid foundationally and before they go into advertising, because she says advertising will enhance or extrapolate whatever is currently happening. Meaning to put it quite bluntly, if your book is like bad, it will exacerbate the bad.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: Yes. Then this makes sense.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we're looking at how to make your book, you know, how does it align with the readers? Does it align with a genre, with a series of books? And then what is your why? As we spoke about, why are you writing this book? And I was talking about how. Well, if you're a hobbyist and it's just for kicks, that's wonderful. And maybe you don't care about any of this stuff. Whereas if you are like me, I want to be more. I want to build my speaking business. So I want a book to show. Show me as an expert and to lead to potential speaking gigs or to be hired for this or that. Right. To be on a podcast or a talk or whatever. So then this is where Rebecca comes into play. Because if my the reason I want this, want to write this book and the content in the book and the potential audience of the book and the why of the book, if those aren't all aligned, then it's going to be an uphill battle. So how. How can an editor then help with that? Why, how can that. We have the author and their idea or their story, and then we have the idea. You know, for example, I mean, to put it bluntly, like selling books. Right. An audience and enjoying the book for.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah, of course.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Topic. Yeah.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: You know, and writers who submit to a traditional publisher or an indie publisher have the goal of selling their work.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:32] Speaker B: We make the mistake that because it's self publishing, it must be way more commercial. We're all commercial. Who all want to sell our things. Yeah. So it's okay to not feel too self conscious about that.
And as an editor, I work mainly with developmental and line editing and together that's sometimes called book doctoring.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: Okay. Okay.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: We do autopsies. No, it's kind of a bit like that. But it is a full work before you can do an autopsy. You don't start ripping it apart before. Before it's made. We're about making it so.
But you want someone to accompany along your writing journey. Not to hold your hand, to coach you and encourage you, but also to get real with you and say, might need to kill some darlings there.
Are we still on the track you wanted to be at the start with your why are we keeping focused? Has your why changed in any way? Because sometimes it does.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: And yeah.
[00:05:32] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. If it does, as long as it's still leading you towards where you want to go, which is getting your book out there.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Wait, so that's really cool. I didn't know that. How early on in the process are you involved?
Do I come to You. My book is done. Here you go. Or you can do. Yes, or I have an idea. I have an idea for a book. Can you help me?
[00:05:55] Speaker B: Both. The ideas page is probably a little too soon because we do need a draft. Editors need something to work with, a bit like an architect. We need a blueprint or a building to build. You know, we're not just going to kind of put a tent up and.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Go, hey, okay, not just I have a vision of a house.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. However, a really good ghostwriter could do that. But I always think of ghost writing as writing. We have people on our team who can do that. They're not going to be at the conference, unfortunately. That is something storyhouse words can offer. But I'll leave that to the experts because development is kind of on the tail end of that, I guess. We sometimes offer snippets of text that would work or ideas or kind of examples in there in your text that you can choose to completely use or use as inspiration or use as a talking point.
And then line phase.
So line usually does come when there's a full manuscript, but it can also come with most as a manuscript in the somewhere. And that's more. Well, it's line by line. It is what it says.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: But it's still pretty creative. You're still looking. Why am I still reading this? What's stopping me from reading this? As you're kind of a proto reader, main reader before beta read.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: It's not just grammar and spelling and commas and.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: And actually, sometimes I don't even touch that in terms of accuracy at all. I look at it in terms of do I like this writing? I mean, it's. Sometimes writing can be very flowery, but it works for what you're wanting to produce. And bear in mind, I work mainly on fiction, so I'm thinking of fiction when I say this, but yeah, I mean, imagine a sentence where you've said very or surprisingly, or a paragraph which always begins with a month later. Or a time indicator. It seems like a detail when you're reading it again and again and again.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: But there's also big picture things going on. You get to know the characters, you get to know the scenes. You get to know the themes and preoccupations of the writer by talking to them. So lion and developmental is also about building a relationship.
Friendly but professional.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: Oh, I like. I really like that. Oh, it's about building a relationship between you and the author.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: It's crucial for me because if I don't get to Know I need to know why I do. But that on its own isn't enough. Because getting into their mindset, with their process, with writing, how determined they are, what their inspirations are, which authors they have in mind subliminally, sometimes while they're writing.
Wow. These are all important things. Yeah.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: That's so cool. I didn't. Didn't really compute.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And it works nonfiction too. But in my experience, nonfiction writers are the successful ones, tend to write really well about what they've noticed. They know what they've been doing for a really long time. They're articulating what they do every day on the page and do a very good job.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:16] Speaker A: Wow.
Wow. That's really. That's really cool. So does, does everybody? Well, it's like asking, asking the, the carpenter, should I build the chair out of wood? But what, what are the advantages of an editor? Why, why should someone get an editor? Can't they just write it and reread it themselves or have their cousin read it?
[00:09:41] Speaker B: You can, you absolutely can. Just put something out there when you've done your first draft if you wish.
But back back to the sales part.
[00:09:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: If you, if you want someone to really want to read it, really want to turn the page, it's really good to have someone look over it who's been a bookworm since the day they could read.
Someone who's read widely, you know, everything from classic literature to trade or self help books or the wider your editor reads, the more likely it is there'll be a good developmental Linus to book doctor. I believe you're looking at it like you need an editor. To me, Hannah from Scratch, she went to an event and she said, I must get the name. And I'm sorry if I'm misattributing this, but he said something like, I'm really glad I have my manuscripts edited because it's like giving them a really good bath.
Which is a lovely analogy because it's a caring thing. You know, you don't help a child have a bath if you don't care for them. I'm thinking of Charter. So if your book is often does feel like you've created it, if you care a lot about it and I mean, if you have just written a draft, you want to get it out there for people to read it, you can, you can do it. But I wouldn't send my child out in just their knickers and vests. And you know, they're okay, they've got clothes on, but they're not ready.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. It's interesting. But also what you said about the relationship.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: I really enjoy that part. Actually, it's the best part of the work because over time people open up and they get less scared of you and the changes that you suggest, they understand why you're making them. You have to find a way to communicate that suits both of you and it's different for every author.
That's the fun, challenging thing.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Yeah. This is really cool. So as the author, then you could. Because you're a, you're a third party perspective and. But, but all we're on the same team and we're going towards the same goal. And your goal is also for the writing to be better.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And maybe the more you write in tandem with someone who, who works like I do in on the creative part, the longer you work together, it doesn't have to be even the same person. The more you craft your own writing and the less you need that. It's. It's almost like having a good mentor teacher or tutor. Almost.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: You know, you don't eventually need them.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: I'm talking myself out of work here. But there's always new writers who.
Writers. They're the most excited ones. And I've also noticed the people who have the best relationship with me are often the most determined writers. They are the ones who are going to finish and publish something good. I know they will send something good out there.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I just had an interesting thought as the other side of the coin, the author, and I think, like, when I finish it and I'm working on it, I've got my draft and I think I'm about to send it. Like, ah, what's Rebecca going to say about that chapter? I'm like, I think I need one more little run through before I get it to her. That would. I could just envision as a relationship getting to know each other. I'm like, oh, I know what she's going to do with this. All right, let me just fix it better myself first. And then you can elevate it even higher.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Exactly. Yes. And that's a very satisfying outcome for an editor because we know then that you're also confident enough to communicate with the editors further down the line who do more of the same. The, the more procedural is this readable part. So like they are really checking, you know, back to the bath analogy. They're checking, is there still a bit of dirt behind the ear? Is there? You know, they got mud on their face or Have I cleaned their teeth? Do they need to wash their hair today?
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: It's specific and technical and rigorous and in line with what's happened before. So there should be a bit of communication between the two different types, but they serve a very different purpose. And some manuscripts, if you're at the stage you've just described, where you've learned, you've learned, you've learned, you know what you need to change. You've got this kind of instinct that's developed by practicing over time.
Eventually you might get to stage where you can give a manuscript. It only needs copy. Editing important. It's important work. I'm not devaluing the second stage of editing. It is important.
[00:14:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: I think it's a different purpose. Yeah.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I like that. It's interesting that the. That it could be that the writer and. And editor work so well together that the writer, I mean, becomes a better writer, to put it simply.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: It would be nice to think that. But if I can help writers be.
Write in a way that makes people who really love to read read that book more than once and recommend it to other people.
You need your SEO, you need your. Your Amazon presence. You need your bookshelf presence in the bookstores. You need marketing. You need all the things Storyhouse Works provides.
[00:15:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: But to become really accomplished, you, that's the crux of it. You need to write something people want to read. That's why they buy it. That's why they say to their friends, I want you to read it. That's why they bring it to book club and discuss it. And it's why, you know, Ken Follett actually says. And he is enormously successful fiction writer, commercial, but people reading his books and actually, commercial writing is a lot of literary fiction in there, if you look. And Stephen King's, he says, can form it, that a good editor is almost a collaborator. So that's nice way of saying it for me because that's how I feel about how I work. Like, I am not the author. I'm not the writer. I'm not the originator. It is not my work. But the collaboration part is where the magic happens.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
So, well, I'm excited to see the panel next week.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: Are you coming?
[00:16:04] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Yeah.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: I think it's organized so that each has a theme, an overarching theme. So.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: Which part of the process is best for you?
[00:16:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
Cool. Speaking of the conference, what. Is there anything you're looking forward to?
It could be anything.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I really wanted to go Some of the other sessions, my main excitement is to meet some new writers.
[00:16:28] Speaker A: Oh, cool.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: But I love hearing about people's ideas and I also respect it when people want to keep quiet for a while. That's okay.
[00:16:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, I like that.
That's really cool.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Lots of different writers too. It's quite nice. We have a nice spread between industry non fiction writers in different fields.
So it's interesting talking to them about their work. But also fiction writers who are maybe a bit nervous or, you know, they know they've got something good. I don't think people would come if they're not. They don't have ideas at least bubbling or getting onto the page. Right.
[00:17:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's a great fun reason to come. I think that's probably enticing then for writers watching this, thinking, ooh, I want to meet Rebecca. I've got an idea. That's really cool. I like that.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: Definitely come and see us. I mean, we're actually surprisingly friendly bunch of senators and we all have different strengths and skills and backgrounds. So we've got really good spread of different expertise that you can tap into and we're all there for questions, you know, over Borrel or coffee as well.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And you said part of your panel is a. Is Q and A. Yeah, I hope.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: Most of it will be. Actually, we're keen to get our patter out the way at the beginning and just let the audience encourage you to ask as specific or general questions as you like. Yeah, it'd be nice to have examples to work on actually, but I'm not sure that's a step too far perhaps.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that would be cool. Awesome. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing you next week and anybody who's watching. I'll put a link down below. You can come to the conference. It's an in person conference. There is. It's not streamed digitally or anything. It is in person in Amsterdam in the Netherlands, March 20th. It's a Thursday. It's all day right near Central Station. Easy to get to and we are both going to be there. So looking forward to seeing you and you watching if you want to come. Especially if you're a writer with an idea and you like to talk with Rebecca about it. She'll be there. So great. So thanks so much, Rebecca. This has been really fun.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: Thank you, Bradley.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Lovely to meet you today and see you next week. Bye for now.
